Posted by Matt Dickhaut.
Student on team #126, Gael Force , from Clinton Highschool and NYPRO.
Posted on 1/27/2000 6:55 PM MST
i was just wondering who uses autocadd here…its a great program and i wanted to know if all or just some teams use it
thanxPosted by Joe Johnson. [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]
Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.
Posted on 1/27/2000 7:04 PM MST
In Reply to: who here uses autocadd to design their robot if not everyone posted by Matt Dickhaut on 1/27/2000 6:55 PM MST:
Delphi is a largely UG (Unigraphics) shop, so we use that software package.
AutoCAD is coming along, but it does not appear to be up there with Pro-E, Catia, IDEAS, & UG.
They keep adding features with each rev. but the 4 above are seem to be the leaders, at least in the Automotive Industry.
Joe J.
Posted by Samuel Lindhorst.
Engineer on team #240, Mach Vee, from Jefferson High School and Visteon.
Posted on 1/27/2000 8:37 PM MST
In Reply to: We use Unigraphics posted by Joe Johnson on 1/27/2000 7:04 PM MST:
: Delphi is a largely UG (Unigraphics) shop, so we use that software package.
: AutoCAD is coming along, but it does not appear to be up there with Pro-E, Catia, IDEAS, & UG.
: They keep adding features with each rev. but the 4 above are seem to be the leaders, at least in the Automotive Industry.
: Joe J.
Autocad, bless 'em for their First support, still doesn’t have as good a freeform surfacing package as the old Solutions 3000 PC based stuff of 10 years ago, althought they bought Solutions around 1993. Mechanical Desktop is good, and although it is hardly up to major tasks, doing a robot is no problem.
And really, designing a robot hardly calls for class A surface* quality, and there are a lot of little programs that do great things, and can be used. I use Rhinocerous (http://www.rhino3d.com) which is an amazingly functional package for $800. Educational licenses are $200, and a 25-save trial package is FREE, just download it. That’s enough for a a robot, if done carefully. Prismatic 3d object generation is a snap with it, for all you animators.
Sam
*class A surfaces in their most extreme form are only found in the car business, AFAIK. They are the most nit-picked, fought over, and obsessive/compulsive surfaces known to CAD. It’s what they use to make those nice, shiny fenders with. Really, even jet turbine blade CAD can’t hold a candle to them.
Posted by Allen Smith.
Engineer on team #7, Knights, from Parkville High School and Black & Decker/AAI/Raytheon.
Posted on 1/27/2000 9:03 PM MST
In Reply to: Re: We use Unigraphics posted by Samuel Lindhorst on 1/27/2000 8:37 PM MST:
: *class A surfaces in their most extreme form are only found in the car business, AFAIK. They are the most nit-picked, fought over, and obsessive/compulsive surfaces known to CAD. It’s what they use to make those nice, shiny fenders with. Really, even jet turbine blade CAD can’t hold a candle to them.
I have to disagree; our power tool surfaces are highly designed and argued over. And I bet both of us have it easy over cell phone packaging engineers, I am amazed at how small they are getting. Black & Decker uses CATIA for all it’s CAD work.
Posted by Jon.
Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Mass Academy of Math and Science and Worcester Polytechnic Institute.
Posted on 1/27/2000 10:53 PM MST
In Reply to: Re: We use Unigraphics posted by Samuel Lindhorst on 1/27/2000 8:37 PM MST:
I love rhino… it kicks _______ (insert what you want it to kick)
Animator me loves it cause it’s so easy and it exports to tons of formats, i find it easy to model and then animate in Max…
Designer me loves it cause it easy to sketch in it (i’m easily faster with it than making a good draft/schematic) and test out ideas in 3d space instead of 2d doodling space…
Anyways, the majority of our work is done in Pro/E. I don’t touch it, but it works, looks good and it runs on a purple SGI box. all good points in my book.
Posted by michael ciavaglia.
Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Interior Systems.
Posted on 1/28/2000 4:12 AM MST
In Reply to: Re: We use Unigraphics posted by Samuel Lindhorst on 1/27/2000 8:37 PM MST:
It doesn’t matter what CAD program is used. Designing your robot in CAD is definitely an advantage. We have adhered to ‘getting it in the tube’ much more this year and so far it has eliminated alot of concerns and questions.
The positive aspects are too many to list, but the biggest is the ability to get everyone on the same page in the design process. Also, with three or four sub teams there are three or four teams using the same space. CAD gives us the ability to marry the chassis and swerve teams together. Did I say swerve team? Well, that was just an example from a past years robot!?! So in past years we needed to rotate the wheel around and check for interference with the chassis. Being able to do this in CAD is much more forgiving than having parts in hand and trying to figure out how we will modify the chassis to get this feature.
Finally, CAD is not necessary when building a robot. But this year seems to be a little smoother (SO FAR, THERE IS STILL FOUR AND A HALF WEEKS LEFT) because we have modelled about 90% of the robot in CAD.
Mike C.
Posted by Lora Knepper.
Student on team #69, HYPER (Helping Youth Pursue Engineering & Robotics), from Quincy Public Schools and The Gillette Company.
Posted on 1/28/2000 8:21 PM MST
In Reply to: We use Unigraphics posted by Joe Johnson on 1/27/2000 7:04 PM MST:
We just got a machine with UG this year…I love it! Though I still find Mechanical Desktop easier, but then I haven’t gotten to really sit and play with the UG…
Posted by Scott Strickland.
Engineer on team #21, ComBBAT, from Astronaut & Titusville High School and Boeing/NASA.
Posted on 1/28/2000 8:52 PM MST
In Reply to: We use Unigraphics posted by Joe Johnson on 1/27/2000 7:04 PM MST:
We are using Solid Edge again this year. It is made by Unigraphics, uses the same modeling kernel, but is a lot easier to use. We showed our robot (as did team 34) at the Solid Edge User’s Group Conference. Dave Brown (FIRST Pres)was the Keynote speaker
Solid Edge has been kind enough to give us temporary licenses for our team’s use. I think they would love to be a bigger supporter of FIRST (they sponsored a lego comp. this year).
Our high school students are modeling parts after taking a few tutorials (with no CAD experience). Still, the software is every bit as powerfull as UG if you don’t require the use of surfaces. Solids work fine for anything that is machined.
Scott
Posted by Andy Baker.
Engineer on team #45, TechnoKats, from Kokomo High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.
Posted on 1/28/2000 12:40 PM MST
In Reply to: who here uses autocadd to design their robot if not everyone posted by Matt Dickhaut on 1/27/2000 6:55 PM MST:
We (I, at least) us UG at Delphi-Delco.
I love it, as long as I can use my trusty Spaceball.
For those of you who have to zoom, rotate, and pan manually… haahaahaa (Jabba the Hut laugh)!
Andy B.
Posted by Elaine Anselm.
Engineer on team #191, X-Cats, from Jos Wilson High School and Xerox.
Posted on 1/28/2000 8:30 PM MST
In Reply to: who here uses autocadd to design their robot if not everyone posted by Matt Dickhaut on 1/27/2000 6:55 PM MST:
We are using the new Autodesk Inventor package this year and with the exception of the interoperability problems (which are pretty annoying - see the post on the technical board) find it working very well. It was very easy for the students to begin using Inventor. They started learning it in November along with 3 adults. We have 5 students who are quite proficient. We are using Inventor for subsystem designs and integration. We stopped using the package used internally at Xerox for product design because they tend to be very difficult for the students to learn, the school doe snot use the software and the adults end up doing the design, not the students.
Posted by Daniel.
Coach on team #483, BORG, from Berkeley High School and NASA Ames & UC Berkeley.
Posted on 1/29/2000 3:08 AM MST
In Reply to: Re: who here uses autocadd to design their robot if not everyone posted by Elaine Anselm on 1/28/2000 8:30 PM MST:
Wow! Am I the only one who uses autocad? Wow…I think it’s time to reform. Though I must say it made my autocad course this year a cinch! =)
Oh well, someday.
-DL
Posted by Lora Knepper.
Student on team #69, HYPER (Helping Youth Pursue Engineering & Robotics), from Quincy Public Schools and The Gillette Company.
Posted on 1/29/2000 6:34 AM MST
In Reply to: lone soul posted by Daniel on 1/29/2000 3:08 AM MST:
Though we do use UG now, AutoCAD has not been left in the dust. All of the students with CAD experience use AutoCAD to draw parts, and right now it’s primarily the engineers that use the UG. That may change in the future, but since we only have 1 UG, and many more CAD machines, we haven’t been able to learn the system, so the AutoCAD family of products are still the best way for us to draw and model our machine.
Lora
P.S ~ I hear you on making the class easier…I take a Mechanical Desktop class in school, and FIRST has made it much easier! 
Posted by Steve Prairie.
Student on team #173, RAGE, from Rockville High School /East Hartford High School and UTRC.
Posted on 1/30/2000 11:39 AM MST
In Reply to: Not quite… posted by Lora Knepper on 1/29/2000 6:34 AM MST:
I am a 9th grader at Rockville High School. I helped design the frame of this years robot using AutoCad LT 98, and AutoCad Inventor. I recieved the Inventor software earlier this month, and created a 3D model of our frame in about an hour. The software has helped our team to get a feel of how our robot is going to look.
Posted by Lora Knepper.
Student on team #69, HYPER (Helping Youth Pursue Engineering & Robotics), from Quincy Public Schools and The Gillette Company.
Posted on 1/30/2000 8:29 PM MST
In Reply to: Re: Not quite… posted by Steve Prairie on 1/30/2000 11:39 AM MST:
I know how modeling and drawing can really help with the design process. Good luck, and I hope to see you in competiton!
Lora Knepper
Posted by Ken Patton. [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]
Engineer on team #65, The Huskie Brigade, from Pontiac Northern High School and GM Powertrain.
Posted on 1/30/2000 1:49 PM MST
In Reply to: who here uses autocadd to design their robot if not everyone posted by Matt Dickhaut on 1/27/2000 6:55 PM MST:
We have used UG for all of our robots since we started in 1997. I am a closet UG user - its not part of my engineering job to use it, but I do anyway. Comes in handy in January and February…
I think its a huge advantage to be doing the design in 3D. One problem we occasionallly have is that people who aren’t super comfortable with looking at the design in 3D (before we have hardware built) don’t really come to grips with the design decisions they must make until they see it in hardware. So we try to take care to make sure everyone understands the CAD design.
Another thing: We’ve been able to write .dxf files directly from UG for the animators to use - it helps them create geometry quicker. Its not as smooth as it could be though, I’ve heard past animation teams say they models were too detailed for the animation anyway.
Ken
Posted by Joe Johnson. [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]
Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.
Posted on 1/30/2000 5:09 PM MST
In Reply to: another UG team posted by Ken Patton on 1/30/2000 1:49 PM MST:
Ken,
We have had good success exporting our data to the format used to make rapid prototypes via stereolithography (.stl files) and then importing them into the animation software.
From what I understand, both technologies need an efficient method to approximate non-flat surfaces. It has worked for us for a few years now.
Joe J.
Posted by Matt Ryan.
Student on team #69, HYPER, from Quincy Public Schools and Gillette.
Posted on 1/30/2000 6:03 PM MST
In Reply to: who here uses autocadd to design their robot if not everyone posted by Matt Dickhaut on 1/27/2000 6:55 PM MST:
Team 69 uses it. It makes it much easier for us to get what we need before we build it. It avoids many mistakes that can occur in the building process. We also use UG, but for many of the students, it is sort of confusing, but we are learning how to use it fast (excellent program, by the way).