Why is FIM Michigan District points so hosed?

The winning Alliance at Milford 2022 was given 20 points for winning. That Event was over a week ago. Up and down the list, the Event points do not add up to the total District points. It is as if FIM stopped trying to be accurate. Unfortunately it looks like total disrespect or slop? Tough call.

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The district points on the FIRST website for FIM is incorrect. Both FIRST and FIM are aware and are working on it. TBA has the correct point totals.


Hmmm for over a week???

If you’re trying to get this problem solved, consider sending a message to those that can actually solve the problem.

Instead of creating this inflammatory post on a public forum.



TBA doesn’t quite have the correct point totals either in this case - they haven’t implemented playoff tiebreakers for this season yet, so I suspect the reason that everyone on the #5 alliance is listed as receiving 20 playoff points instead of 30 is due to this match. Also note that the bracket doesn’t indicate a winner from the #1/#5 match-up.

District points on TBA are unofficial. The official source of truth is FRC events. Incidentally, that lists 25 playoff points for everyone on the #5 Milford alliance, which is ordinarily something you’d only see with backup teams called in, but could be due to the same tied match.

At any rate, this issue isn’t unique to FIM or week 2, but I am confident it will be resolved before it matters for advancement to district championships.

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This isint the only thing incorrect on FIRSTs site, so I doubt they’re ignoring it. Clackamas still says the wrong alliance advanced to the finals. TBA has it “fixed” but district points are still being calculated incorrectly.


Correct me if I am wrong, I came up through the regional system and I am a transplant, but hasn’t FIM always been a little hit-or-miss with this sort of stuff?

I get that it is frustrating. For teams that are on the bubble with district points (based on historic cutoffs) you want to get your logistics sorted. Totally fair.

I am concerned with this problem too, but I know all lead mentors of the alliance are in touch with FIM. They are aware of the problem and are working on it. No one is going to let it ride.

While I understand you’re frustrated, calling the hardworking volunteers in FIM as “total disrespect or slop” is super disrespectful in its own right. The persons involved are probably taking conference calls on their lunch hour or late night to resolve this issue - All while working a full time job for someone else than FIRST. They pay bills, need oil changes, and need clean clothes.

The issue might be a programming one, needing a patch, rather than a data entry. It might be an issue with the tie breaker round. Who knows? Just defaulting to “FIM is mean” isn’t helpful.

I started working with FIM on some FTC events. They are willing to join calls at 8 or 9 PM trying to get the events to go smoothly. I thought mentoring was hard, but at least that gets the joy of seeing kids “aha” moments. The event/infrastructure groups puts in equal or more hours for way less thanks.


We did contact FIM… a week ago.
I was contacted by a Team sweating making it into States. They asked how points were needed. I said 62 to 65. They have 50. I pointed out that they actually have over 80.
Why post information that you KNOW is wrong?

I was going to break out:

“Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.”

But I think we are more likely looking at:

“Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence volunteers with a lot on their plates trying to make this all work during covid.”


Can’t speak to FIM specifically, but I dont remember previous years having this many issues with district points.


They have the points closer now. Still 25 points for the Alliance wins instead of 30. And Gracious Professionalism Award gets 0. Sorry Woodie…

District points are calculated centrally by FIRST for all districts, and other districts are seeing similar issues (including with 1-day events). FIM has very little control over it.


Alan, do you really think your demeaning and inflammatory attitude towards volunteers is going to help solve the problem?

Have you contacted FIM and FIRST? Have they responded? Who have you contacted? Through what means? Email? Phone? What was their last feedback? Who have YOU PERSONALLY talked to directly?

These people are doing the best they can. Being frustrated is one thing. Throwing stones is quite another.

I could pick up a phone and have Gail Alpert on the other end in 30 seconds. As can any mentor in Michigan. She’s one of the most accessible “presidents” of an organization I’ve ever met.


I checked today at the list at FRC Event Web : 2022 FIRST In Michigan District looks a lot better on the whole than yesterday (it’s updated to the events that ended yesterday), but is still missing awards points (for everyone?).

Cool thing is they layout the point structure in the manual. You can go in and do the math to find out how many points a team has.


“Do the math, save the world.”

Only works if you do the math correctly. Incorrect math can do other things to the world.


Alan doesn’t want to do the math…he just wanted a place to bash people who volunteer their time away so he doesn’t have to do math. :upside_down_face:


Look at some of the responses here if you want to see mean spirited.
This is my 11th year of volunteering time, money, my Shop for the Team to build in, heat, light, supplies, power, Machine tools, my custom designed and purchased Team buttons and mechanical engineering and lots of monies and floor space.
I have met Gail twice, both times while working as a Robot Inspector. Both times not a good experience. Nuff said.
Hours donated? If you own the Shop, you know about putting in time.
Teams work hard. Too hard to get bad input. If I say I will be at the Shop at 8 AM. I will be there. Not at 9 or 10 or… a week later.
If they need Sunday too, I am there by the time agreed upon.
I don’t see where asking for correct scores is flaming. If the numbers aren’t correct, please don’t post them. That is all. I guess it is the Mechanical Engineer in me. For my Business, it has to be right, every time.

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You called the people working on getting those correct scores “totally disrespectful”, or slop.

If you don’t see that as flaming (or at the very least, insulting), then I have problems with your point of view.

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