I am going to preface this by saying I love this forum but, sometimes it can be brutal. The big reason why I am making this thread was stemmed from series of comments on my F4 thread.
So, yea…
I joined CD over a year ago while my team was in a cycle of failure. No one knew what to do and it was a place to gain FRC insight. Being I talkative person in general I jumped straight into discussion. Probably not the wisest idea being my knowledge level at the time. One of my first posts was completely out of line and was just an unnecessary statement calling a 254 robot mentor built. Looking back I can not fathom why I would put such a statement on the internet but I did. I got as I could now predict a swarm of red dots. Knocking me well below into negative points. Especially since one of the people was Karthik. After realizing how dumb my post was I pmed all of the people that redded me to apologize. Except for the people who threated me…
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So, I was now a student with my team number in my BIO sitting with 4 red dots. Realizing how bad it looked to my team I contacted Brandon Martus who helped me out and brought me into green. It was a second chance.
From there I continued posting quite a bit. Often times my opinion was disregarded. It was not that my posts were always bad it was just that some mentors had a hard time taking advice or discussing something with a student.
Despite me also getting greened quite a bit I still had my fair share of red dots. Some from respected mentors some not so respected. Ironically with quite a lot of dots at this point only one red one came from a student and it was very recently and did not actually make logical sense. There were a few dots that made sense. I may have went a little too far or said something rude but the majority were just from angry people with a different opinion.
I sometimes make jokes that my RP page is Christmas themed with the Red, Gray, and Green dots. Luckily my green dots outweigh my red ones at this point.
You may have noticed by now the thread I quoted earlier was from months ago. The reason why I started this thread was after a long discussion with the F4 community of students. We found that many of felt looked down upon from mentors and that the RP system was abused by quite a few of them.
If you are a new member here my advice is to re-read your posts and make sure they are both factual, and respectful. Do not post when angry and make sure to follow FIRST ideals at all times.
Lets make sure to make this a safe place for both students and mentors. Lets simply be kind and take a second to understand the intent of a post before reacting. Also I urge everyone to only red dot someone if they are being blatantly rude, or disrespectful. Someone accidentally quoting the wrong page of a manual or disagreeing with you respectfully are not a reason for a red dot. That is what grey dots are for.
I don’t think that mentors have a hard time taking good advice. I bet most of us have a hardened skepticism against “claims”, “opinions”, “thoughts” and “feelings” that are not backed up by data, facts, verified demonstrations or in some cases - common sense.
Then there’s the time it would take to gather the data, facts, or verified demonstrations in order to incontrovertibly correct a bad opinion. Personally I don’t respond to a lot of ‘wrong’ posts simply because of that.
All in all, the dot system is a way to PM someone and project “thoughts” and “feelings” that then hopefully correct behaviors. It’s like a CD emoticon that serves as a +1, ‘like’ or Upvote/Downvote. Do you think that without the red dots you would have had the motivation to change at all?
edit - quick note after following the first few quote - this post is more about your journey on CD in general over the last year, rather than anything about your show. IMO, it’s a great thing you’re working so hard to keep the student side of FRC alive! I may send a few kids your way if you want more guests. Let me gauge interest.
Nope. I’m gonna be honest here, based on what you’ve just posted, it seems to me that the thing that finally changed your perception was Karthik’s negative reputation and subsequent private message conversation. In the offline real world, it works the same way. You have the right to open your mouth (or type on a keyboard) and say whatever you want, but in doing so you open yourself up to criticism. Creating a safe space where no one is allowed to tell each other when they’re wrong stifles teaching and learning opportunities.
Clearly you’ve already learned something from this experience so I wont harp on it, but I think it would be better to “check yourself” before you make a post instead of doing so unfiltered and then deflecting the consequential criticisms.
I’m going to go ahead an demonstrate my ignorance. Can someone please explain what dots you are talking about? Is there a reputation system on CD that I never knew of? I can’t see anything on my personal profile page, nor any of yours.
Look at the top right of any of your posts, you have 2 green dots. You can also go to your “user cp” and wee who gave you rep and why they gave you rep.
Edit: full rules of the reputation system can be found here.
They are the small, green or red gradients that appear directly under your post count (another number that doesn’t really mean much) on the top right side of any post.
What I think may be the issue for some is the disconnect between a mentor student relationship on the Internet to one in real life. But overall I agree.
Also I fully support the cp more commonly known as rp system. Without it I probably would have changed quite a bit slower and it’s definitely a good wakeup call once in a while.
Lastly yup this didn’t have much to do with my show thanks though. If your students or anyone else wants to join apply here http://goo.gl/forms/vKi7FIqj1c we have about 40 members on our slack and it’s extremely active.
I think part of the issue is that students these days are so connected to the internet and social media that they over post. They come in all excited and saturate CD with a lot of useless posts and questions that could be found with a proper search.
Not to point you out as a negative but look at your numbers Sperkowsky.
You joined: Jan 2015 total posts 1280 in just over 15 months
Now look at me
Joined Jan 2007 total posts 966 in just over 9 years. (i had another account before but was inactive for a time on CD and couldn’t remember it)
There are many times that I write up a post and then end up not posting it because at the end of the day what I was going to say wasn’t really going to add to the conversation or after I typed it out I realized it wasn’t really worth getting into the conversation.
I’ve preached this about team growth in FRC but it works here as well. Quality over quantity.
When I say safe place I do not mean neglecting the rep system. What I am saying is we should make sure students do not have their opinions shut down withoit real reason and the unnecessary reputation doesn’t get thrown around.
I believe you make some solid points, especially pointing out that unnecessary reputation shouldn’t be thrown around. But what may seem unnecessary to one person, may seem productive to another.
For example, I have been known to give red dots to students (usually ones that I personally mentor) who post on CD without editing their content to be more professional. It may seem frivolous to give red dots for text speak and incorrect grammar, but one of the things I appreciate about CD is the professional communication.
How do you better propose to encourage and teach students the proper way of interacting on CD?
I’m very impressed by the OP… quality post reflecting a tremendous amount of maturity!
I do think that he is onto something real… many mentors have been doing this a long time and have a strong prejudice against someone new who thinks they’re a hot-shot (or acts like they think they’re the next Einstein champion). I’ve seen many people with a slight bit of immaturity get some serious red dots and negative posts just because they aren’t in the “ChiefDelphi Group Think” world… and I’ve sometimes seen the highly experienced mentors from reputable teams with a “reputation beyond repute” get a lot more benefit of the doubt than I often think their post should receive.
I disagree.
I think many of “us motivated, mature mentors that embrace FIRST values” still often react with our feelings, play favorites, and are defensive about some/many things… not to mention the many adults in FIRST that don’t necessarily embrace FIRST values and have the maturity you’d hope! I think, yes, we like to think we’re highly empirical… but from my experience, many people claiming to be highly empirical and fact-driven are actually highly emotional and defensive.
I think it’s become easier to be a student on CD as CD has matured me. When I first joined almost exactly a year ago, my posts were somewhat childish and I was told a few times from a lot of different people what should and shouldn’t be said on here. As I’ve been on here, the reputation system and reading what other people say and how they say it has helped my posts become more thought out and higher quality stuff. I think the biggest thing is if you join, don’t be scared away. Feel free to PM some frequent flyers on this site and ask them about what should and shouldn’t be said. Most of them would be more than willing to help. Remember that not everyone is perfect (but this shouldn’t be used as an excuse either!). I know I sometimes slip up every once in a while and say something that shouldn’t have been said or should have been said in a better way. About a month ago, I said something that was received as completely different than I meant it to say. Looking back at it, I saw how people received it in a negative way. Just try to cut out those situations by reading your post from all angles before you post it.
Don’t be afraid to write a post for 15 minutes and then not post it. I’ve done that before many times. I tend to read my posts 4 or 5 times before I post them. When I first joined, I never reread my posts and said some really really odd stuff.
Oh, I definitely am way too connected and definitely made quite a few useless posts when I first got here. At this point I try to make my posts as productive as possible and definitely stay out of situations when I do not feel I have anything good to say.
Nathan - What you posted here isn’t disagreement, unless you are trying to say that a non-trivial population of the sort of CD user Jesse described simply doesn’t exist.
You both can easily be right. Many CD users can fall into Jesse’s camp and many can fall into the one you described.
I think you are both right enough, and that you both are describing a part of the total CD universe.
Ill give you some examples (I wish I could go back and get all of mine but a lot of the comical ones are gone)
Here are some recent ones
The 2056 Streak has… 04-02-2016 11:19 PM - they still won
like what?
or
pic: Rookie Mistake 03-28-2016 11:18 PM rambling post and bragging
The “bragging” was me saying that I read the manual a lot.
Side note on this one the person who redded me also redded a person in F4 for no real reason and even PM’ed me recently because he could not red me again.
Here is what you should use it for
Negative reputation should be given if the person is posting something that detracts from the conversation. If the post is rude, inappropriate, breaks forum rules, is not gracious, etc; these are all good reasons to give negative reputation. If you have a personal grudge with someone, their team, etc, is it not appropriate to give them negative reputation for no reason. Giving negative reputation because you don’t agree with what was said is not an appropriate use of the reputation system. People are entitled to their own opinions, and just because you don’t agree doesn’t mean the user was wrong or not contributing to the conversation.
