Why Ref’s should always throw flags

Watch the Curie Semifinals 2-2 (cur_SF2-2.wmv) on soap,
http://soap.circuitrunners.com/2006/movies/curie/

This was the second match between the Red Alliance (79, 469, and 222) and the Blue Alliance (503, 451, and 1139). The first match went to the Red Alliance with a score of 121 to 31. In this second match, the Blue Alliance won autonomous with an excellent defensive maneuver which sent the Red into offensive mode.

You can see that Blue is playing some really tough defense of which I am a big fan. Unfortunately, they are using all three of their robots to do so. For most of the 2nd period you can see all three robots on screen blocking, pushing, and turning the Red Alliance robots. This did not fall on blind eyes. At the top of the screen you can see the sideline Referee counting down the offside penalties. The Ref clearly motions two penalties before one of the blue bots retreats across the mid-field line.

The match was extremely close and the Soap video shows the scoreboard with the official score of 77 to 71 in favor of the Blue Alliance. What’s missing from the score is any mention of the 2 off-side penalties that were called on the field.

I know from experience that when you’re refereeing you cannot see everything, and you sometimes miss calling penalties because of this lamentable lack of omniscience. However, if you are Refereeing and you do see a penalty, **FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WRITE IT DOWN OR THROW A FLAG ** or do something to remind yourself at the end of the match that it was there.

This completely changed the outcome of the Curie field and who knows what would have happened if the 2nd seed alliance of teams 79, 469, and 222 and the 1st seed alliance of teams 70, 1114, and 48 faced off and either one of these powerhouse offensive alliances went to play on Einstein.

It is very possible they did mark it down and it did not make it in translation to the scorers table. That is the normal issue as opposed to the refs forgetting what they are doing/penalizing. Also he made that signal to Hogan (the ref on the opposite side of the field so there is some redundancy) so I seriously doubt the refs missed the call or forgot it. I know that one of the Krunch members was helping to enter the scores on Curie so you may want to ask them about that match and if they were helping on that particular match. (don’t remember his name, older gentleman, full head of white hair)

I noted that after the match, the score board showed that each team was penalized 5 points. I guess there were three offsides called. It was pretty blatant and the refs did catch it.

The explanation I got from one of the refs. was that 1139 was disabled because they were hung up on the ramp. I take that call with a grain of salt and choose not to discuss it here but that’s what I found out when I asked.

The score board at the end of the video does not show any penalties and the final posted score corresponds to the real-time scoring when you include the number of robots on the ramp (1 for red, 3 for blue). So no penalties were awarded that match.

As far as disabled robots are concerned, all three are moving and playing defense for most of that period. It wasn’t until there was only 15 seconds or so left that one of the Blue robots got stuck on the ramp. The Refs made a good solid call when they pointed them offsides, but it never got recorded.

I am posting just to clarify some things. All three robots can be seen on screen (soap video) from the clock’s reading of 110 seconds till 93 seconds BUT team 1139 I believe it was, got stuck on the ramp at 95 seconds, rendering them disabled nullifying the backbot rule.
The ref in the picture does clearly count out 2 penalties, although the infraction was for 15 seconds. Regardless, there is 10-15 points in penalties not being assessed in this match. With a difference in score of 6 points. Those 10-15 points mean the world.

Disheartened,
-Henry

I’m not sure if you were with your team at the Midwest Regional in 2005. But something similar happened to us (being the alliance of 648, 79, and 107). Since then time has passed and I have gotten over it. Reffering mistakes happen and there isn’t anything anyone can do about it.

I have not watched the match but a few questions. Did 1139 just get hung up on the ramp, get stuck or did they disable themselves? Do you know for sure that the penalties were not counted? That cannot be judged by the real time scoring as it was never very accurate. Were the teams playing defence or were they just offside trying to get onside?

Steve I don’t want to assume things I don’t know, but it appeared that 1139 just got high centered on the ramp and could not move. as mentioned they were not disabled for the first 15 seconds of the infraction. The penalty points were not assessed and when I questioned a referee they told me a robot was disabled. A robot cannot be disabled if they are moving freely. Also, the teams were clearly playing defense with no team even attempting to return to onsides.

I’m not posting this to rag on anyone, just simply stating what went on. I too like my senior drivers am very disheartened about this match. I understand things happen and the refs. are volunteers so I am not blaming them, but for times like this there needs to be some sort of instant replay.

Cliff
222 Engineer and drive coach