Everywhere in FIRST there is someone who hates combat robotics. I’ve met people who tell me it’s stupid, worthless, not as intelligent as FRC. Even my own head mentor says it’s not
“real robots”. What is with all the animosity towards battle bots in the FIRST community? It’s really uninspiring to have one of my favorite forms of robotics competition constantly put down, especially as someone who wants to compete in it.
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I think some of it has to do with the fact that BattleBots is the first thing someone asks about when they don’t know what FIRST is. Everyone knows what BattleBots is primarily due to the TV show, so they assume that all robots are meant for combat robotics. And it’s probably annoyed people to a point where they despise something that they haven’t even participated in. I personally love Battlebots, it’s really fun to see a different side of robotics in comparison to the less aggressive FIRST robots.
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I think you will discover that most people who do combat robots also do FIRST. Most perceived animosity or dislike between the communities is entirely of the “friendly rivalry” variety.
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I was mentored by an OG of the original Battlebots show on Comedy Central and his opinion was that you get a lot more fun for your money and time doing FIRST and largely there still is very limited sensor/control based Battlebot design. I think there have been a few attempts to make a more automated battlebot but I’ve not seen anything that comes close yet. Maybe Hacksmith’s team if it ever ends up working with their AI driver assist.
The mechanical side of Battlebots is pretty cool though I will say. Making weapons that don’t explode the first time they hit something has to be incredibly difficult.
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I haven’t seen as much animosity as you have. I think what I’ve seen much more often is people sick of being asked if FIRST is equivalent to battle bots. I’ll also note that the group of people in FIRST is quite large and you can probably find someone who doesn’t like any of a lot of things everywhere in FIRST. I think battle bots just comes up a lot and those people are therefore going to voice their opinions.
This is probably because it is kind of true for a lot of combat robots. A lot of the most common architectures are much closer to RC cars than FIRST robots. That isn’t to say it isn’t an engineering challenge, but there’s a bit of a tendency for battle bots to be much more focused on the mechanical side at the expense of the controls side.
Ignore them. There’s probably people who would tell you FRC is stupid and worthless. If you enjoy it go for it. I didn’t find it nearly as rewarding as FRC or the other robotics project I’m now involved in, but that doesn’t mean you won’t.
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It’s often the classic have-four-people-ask-“oh, you mean Battlebots?” when talking about FRC and release the frustration upon the fifth.
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My thoughts (which are really inspired by Libby’s thoughts) from an older thread:
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I’ve taken to responding to the “Oh is it like BattleBots?” question with something like “In the sense that you could say gladiatorial combat is like sports.” before going on to explain the differences a bit more. It helps me to get a bit of humor out first so I don’t blow a gasket from the incessant recurring question.
So yeah, for many of us its more-so frustration with the constant comparison of FRC to BattleBots and Combat Robotics rather than an issue with BattleBots itself. As said before, many FRC Alumni have participated in BattleBots, and FRC-Centric Companies like REV have sponsored teams and I think that’s awesome.
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From my local area, there’s two combat robotics teams made up of FRC students, CCR (cascadia combat robotics) and TWA (Team Wrong Angle). I don’t think there is animosity to combat robotics overall in FIRST, and I think it’s silly to think that there is.
Here’s a robot I saw at a combat robotics event that I thought was interesting.
Those drivetrain motors look familiar don’t they?
EDIT: an even better example of this alleged animosity not existing is the colocation of WAR(Western allied robotics) and a FRC/FTC team doing outreach. The two groups got along very well, and a FRC ref was reffing the combat robotics event, a combat robotics team lent the FRC team tools, and so on.
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When people hear about FIRST and ask if it’s like Battlebots I tell them many of the stars like Jamison Go, Aren Hill and Greg Needel to name a few came from the program.
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I have the same question. Whenever I talk about robotics to my friends whose not in robotics, they think of battle bots. And when I try to get people to join, their first question was “Is it a battle bot?” “How many robots did your robot kill? ". And it kind of make me mad, because no one is understanding the program you are interested in.
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I thought it was a headphone for sec 
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Battlebots=knockout martial arts
FRC=football
Still high-contact but damaging opponents is not the name of the game and each team/alliance is trying the same scoring objective towards opposite ends of the field.
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Personally, I feel like battle bots is a bit of a waste of resources. It’s cool to watch and all, but the stuff that goes into robots is expensive and intentionally destroying it is… odd.
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I got to help a BB team while in college for a year. Even went out to Vegas to film an episode for the TV show. It’s a very cool experience and is definitely “real” robotics. It is a very different experience than FIRST in almost every way. Teams are all relatively small, but require a lot of money, and it’s more of a entertainment production than an educational experience. I will agree that it can be wasteful, however, it’s the nature of what BB is. I think most people in FIRST recognize that they’re just not really comparable because of how different they are, and can be frustrated when people mistake FRC for BB. Don’t let that discourage you or let it inspire you any less! If I’ve learned anything from FRC and BB, it’s that all robots are cool.
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I also doesnt understand Big Hero 6 is a banger
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Quick way to say this that more “quip” like:
Battle bots is to knockout martial arts as FIRST is to football, ya can’t punch 'em in the face, but you still can hit em really hard.
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Most people doing combat robots are participating in muuuuuuch smaller weight classes than what you see on TV. The relative waste of a 3lb robot is quite small.
I think this is definitely true of the TV show from what I’ve heard, but there’s certainly a whole lot of combat robots beyond that.
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20 years ago, it was a bit frustrating as that was all folks knew fir comparison, and you would have to do the Gladiator analogy.
Two big differences today. In sports, folks know about MMA and Battlebots really parallels that sport.* Between strikers, grapplers, and submission artists, they really match well with comparison to Battlebots.
FRC is much more of a full contact sport like Football or Hockey.
Thus when people say, “oh like battlebots”. I can say, “Yes sort of. If battlebots is MMA, and FRC is mor of a sport like basketball, soccer, hockey, or football. Only each year, they invent a new sport to play.”
If folks are still interested, talking about the crossover of participants and the mechanics and dynamics of one on one vs team play, and style of play can help add depth to the discussion.
Aa others have said, pulling people into STEM shouldnt start with degrading their only reference. You will likely turn off a potential supporter.
The only time I squash BB talk is when a FRC team/student just wants to bash, smash, and destroy. Im all for good hard hits, but FRC… IS NOT BATTLEBOTS. There might even be a rule about that.
*Another deeper level comparison is that MMA often has divisive response similar to battlebots where some find combat sports a complete waste of talent and others see it as a competitive physical art form.
If you ever get the chance, talk with some of the BB builders/competitors. There is way more strategy, skill, and thought put into many top robots than meets the eye. Muxh like combat sports, at high level its much more rhan smashing the other.
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These are Cytron motors, they come as left hand or right hand drive with or without the blue 5 inch wheels. These are very much like the “snow blower/window motors” from FRC. The difference is the wheel hub. It’s a big circular hub added onto the shaft to make the blue wheel easy to attach with 3 screws.
FRC motors would work as a similar drop in answer and might be better with different wheels. I have used these exact motors for a bunch of FTC/FRC sized robot projects over the years. They are faster than you would think, especially with the default wheels. My only complaint like most “handed” motors is one mounting arm sits very very low so you can’t get too much of a smaller wheel and still be direct mounted to the motor. If you go smaller the nub will contact the floor before the wheel does. Depending on how you orient the motor you can cut one of the nubs off if needed, but obviously this comes with a cost of rigidity.
The crossover is there definitely and it’s easy to see why BattleBots is a popular dream for FRC alumni. It’s also why some teams are sponsored by FRC vendors (vex & Rev) and their parts can be compatible. I’m actually wondering how many BattleBots use FRC motor controllers… It’s actually perfect for a motor like these (TalonSrx or VictorSpx in PWM mode)
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