If FIRST moved Nationals to another state would teams be angry about not going to Disney. Personallyy have never been to Nats but am going this year. I would rather go somewhere besides Disney if it meant that any team could go. i would like to have Nats in either Texas where we could have it inexspensively or the East Coast. What do you Think?
I was thinking…why Texas? As of 2001/10/13, 12:00 a.m., the Lone Star Regional is the only one with space remaining (5 places), and it has consistently been less full than any of the others (in terms of percentage). No slight against Texas intended, but could this indicate that it’s an inconvienient location for many teams? The east coast would definitely be convienient for a large number of teams, but it lacks the appeal that Florida has to us “snowbirds”, (i.e. it’s warm 
).
As for having the Nationals/Championship elsewhere in general, I think my team would definitely (try to) attend, for the simple reason that it is the chamipionship, but keep in mind that Florida is still a good balance between convienience and climate, and Disney is still an accomodating host (despite the new fees!).
I have to say I think the results of this poll will be a tad misleading…
Would our team go to Nats if it wasn’t in Disney-- sure, we prolly would… we don’t go for the Disney-ness (the team doesn’t even buy hoppers or stay extra to spend time in Disney)… we go for the competition… It’s nice to get out of the snow to the sun… but I think we wouldn’t really question going to nats based on local.
HOWEVER- I DO think that no matter where Nat’s are, limiting is just the healthiest thing at this point til FIRST can fully catch up to the ‘monster’ they’ve created and we can get to the ‘recognizability’ point of everything from BattleBots to NCAA…
It doesn’t matter the local… the “Championship Event” will be of equal caliaber no matter what ground it’s on… it’s the qualifying that is going to change the game and make it something to see and strive to be at!
You should want to go for the chance to compete with the best of the best… no ride rides you think are the best…
so is what i think 
Hrm. I would be willing to go to another state/ location for the championships if it meant every/any team could go. I think not having limitations on who attends is one thing that FIRST has that other things don’t. I could see moving to Texas because of the size of all the convetion centers and similar places that are being built. Now, having said that, I know for a fact that Disney owns way more land than most people realize. they are holding on to it for future expansion. So why not expand to aide FIRST. Can you imagine the tax write off of that? It could be another “FIRST place.” They could build interactive stuff for guests and it would be really good for pr and school trips. There is so much potential there it’s unreal. the trillof Disney isnt really so thrilling. Last year was the first time I had ever been to Disney, it was nice but that wasn’t what I was there for. I didn’t spend very much time in the parks, only the 2 days my team scheduled to be there extra. The point is that I would be willing to go elsewhere for another Nationals, or should it be called internationals? There are plenty of east coast places that would be warm for you snow birds, and maybe not quite so shocking for you guys.
The draw of Disney aside, I think that the point a few others have touched on of any move only being a temporary solution for a few more years is the most important thing to look at. Yes, we may be able to move to a different site and let all the teams that want to go to Nationals compete for a few more years, but then we will be back in the same position we are now, assuming that FIRST continues on the same growth rate they’ve had pretty much since this while thing started 11 years ago.
Also, as I mentioned in another thread a while back, moving this year’s National competition is not a possibility. Based on what I know from working with FIRST at various other events, planning for many of the events for the next year takes place while the current year’s events are still taking place, and with the size of Nationals, I think it’s safe to say that it is no exception. So, because of the amount of planning that goes into the event, moving to another site for 2002 is not an option.
Nate, I think you hit it right on the head. FIRST is just too big for a single national venue. No matter how much Nats is expanded, it will never be possible for every team to go, and it will only get worse as time goes on.
I believe Dean said FIRST is growing at approximately 15% annually when he spoke at West Michigan. That may not seem like much, but when running a competition where everyone goes, that’s huge. If Nationals were to grow at the same rate as FIRST, and no limiting was applied, this year we would have 385 teams at nationals. Next year, we would have 443 teams. By 2005, over 585 teams would attend. By 2009, 1000 teams would be at nationals! That’s not to say this would happen, but it shows the futility of moving, rather than limiting nationals.
The fact of the matter is: it was bound to happen. FIRST had to limit attendance; simply moving the location would have only bought them a year or two. No facility they chose could support 1000 teams and still have a quality event. Furthermore, who would really want to attend Nationals with 1000 teams? People were already complaining about the size after last year, and only 335 teams were there. FIRST had to bow to reality, and make the only decision they could: limit nationals.
For my team, it would all depend where the nats were held at. For us, Disney is great. It’s less than two hours away. We’ve never had to worry about out of state travel or any of that. If nats where in, saw, NH or something…I’m sure we would send at least some people to it but most likely not the whole team and our robot.
I agree with nate that it is just temporary. I think if FIRST wants to limit the Nats then it should be fare. Also Disney is also beeing unfare, we give them almost 3 million dollars in profit a year and they dont help us out with promotion. They should atleast put a small spot on the Disney chanel about FIRST. I also want to know about this new charge for teams staying of of Disney property?
*Originally posted by mnkysp6353 *
Also Disney is also beeing unfare, we give them almost 3 million dollars in profit a year…
While that may be the total number for how much money FIRST teams give them(I’m not even sure if it’s that,) I highly doubt that all of that is profit. I haven’t actually seen the numbers for what all of the event “village” setup costs them, but I imagine it is well into the millions of dollars, between the initial setup and the actual costs of running everything, from the pit power(a considerable amount of money alone, I’m sure), to the air conditioning, to the big screens and blasting music that we’ve all come to expect at a FIRST competition. Also, as the time lapse that they’ve showed us at Nationals the last few years shows, the event village is being set up months before we arrive, probably even before the regionals begin. So you also have to look at the costs of all the manpower that is being redirected from elsewhere on the Disney property to set up the site.
I won’t deny that they most likely are making a profit from FIRST, and perhaps the recognition they give in return could be a bit better, but based on what I can tell from seeing the growth of Nationals over the past 4 years, I have a feeling their profit is not nearly as much as we may think…
*Originally posted by mnkysp6353 *
**I also want to know about this new charge for teams staying of of Disney property? **
The packages that FIRST and Disney arrange for teams competing include an extra cost to help subsidize the cost of the event “village,” buses to the village, team party, etc. However, with some teams booking outside of the Disney package, in effect, the teams who booked within the Disney package were paying for the teams who booked outside of “the package” for Nationals. Example:
-Team A pays for the Disney package for their team. They are staying off site, at a hotel that would normally not have direct transportation to Disney, but because of the package deal, Disney is providing busses to the site.
-Team B goes through their own travel agent to get everything for Nationals. They are staying at the same hotel as team A, have the same park passes, etc. but since they did not book using the Disney package, they did not have to pay the extra cost for the busses, event village, etc. However, since there was a Disney package for their hotel, there’s still a Disney-provided bus that can take them directly to the event site.
-Essentially, team A is paying not only for their own use of the busses and event facilities, but also for team B! I used an off-site example here, but the same thing applies to teams who are staying on-site, but not using the Disney/FIRST packages for doing so.
The new “event fee” for teams who book outside of the Disney/FIRST package, not who stay off Disney property, is an attempt to prevent this from happening. As far as I can tell, it’s only fair…
*Originally posted by littlefish180 *
**For my team, it would all depend where the nats were held at. For us, Disney is great. It’s less than two hours away. We’ve never had to worry about out of state travel or any of that. If nats where in, saw, NH or something…I’m sure we would send at least some people to it but most likely not the whole team and our robot. **
Yeah, well everyone else has to travel to Florida from a distance, so wherever nats were to go, some people would have a long trip, and some people would have a short trip. You can never find one place that will please everyone, but I think the draw of Disney makes up for the distance for many teams. Would as many teams go to nationals in New Hampshire. Probably not. Some teams might decide the trip isn’t worth it, but most would go just because it’s the National Championship.
I think it is safe to say that several large “nationals” would be a better fit for a growing FIRST. But the locations for them may be a challenge.
The nice thing about the Disney venue is that in the off hours there is plenty for the kids to do and the whole thing is somewhat contained. That kind of venue is hard to find.
As a suggestion I think FIRST should probably look to splitting the nationals to east and west coast and try to stick with Disney. Six Flags might also be a venue to look at.
What should be avoided is a National in a cold climate. Imagine thousands of kids snowed in by a late spring blizzard!!!
You know, there are thousands of FIRSTers out there living in all parts of the country. Maybe some could do the footwork and gather information for FIRST.
I had a thought when I heard nats were being limited this year. What if they split it between the two disneys? have a west coast nat and an east coast nat between disneyland and disneyworld respectively. Then after that happens we take the top 10 or something and Dean can fly them all to someplace in like kansas in his cop… no no that second part would never work I don’t know what to do after they win, cause paying for transpo to two nats would suck unless they could get someone to sponsor the winning teams flight plan… but yeah have two nats, one in disneyland and one in disneyworld so we don’t have to sacrifice disney, and it eases up on the west coast since they’re growing so fast
*Originally posted by Jason Flanagan *
**I had a thought when I heard nats were being limited this year. What if they split it between the two disneys? have a west coast nat and an east coast nat between disneyland and disneyworld respectively. Then after that happens we take the top 10 or something and Dean can fly them all to someplace in like kansas in his cop… no no that second part would never work I don’t know what to do after they win, cause paying for transpo to two nats would suck unless they could get someone to sponsor the winning teams flight plan… but yeah have two nats, one in disneyland and one in disneyworld so we don’t have to sacrifice disney, and it eases up on the west coast since they’re growing so fast **
The general response to running multiple venues for nationals from FIRST was “we don’t have enough staff to do it.” They’re pretty thing with staff as it is and dividing them in half would be nearly impossible.
Matt
You can look at the notes that were taken at the August meeting. alot of this was talk about.
The cost of putting the regionals on usely comes from the sponsors.( Big Corp.)
Why can these smaller events after FIRST is done, be put on a lot cheaper. our team has been to a lot of non FIRST events that were run very well.
If more smaller events were put on and FIRST did not have to put money into them you would think that it would have more money for the Nationals.
Go from 3 days to a week. You could put a lot of teams thru in a weeks time to find a national champion.
We bring alot of money to Disney. If you do not thinks so look at the whole picture. The total number of teams and the amount of money they spend at Disney.
This is a place that cost you Big dollars for food. $2.50 for water? I pay only fifty cents for the same water. and the store make money.
Disney like lots of people to being lots of money with them.
having it week long will give disney more money for all they have to do by putting up the home for FIRST.
We just want a chance to go to the nationals
Ok, I’m going to attempt to respond to multiple posts so I hope this doesn’t get to wierd. First off, while Disney may not fet to pocket all of the money we spend down there, they do get a tax write off. They can include loss of time, income and charitavle donations in their taxes and come out smellin like roses. The catch is that they have to front the money.
Also, what would the point of multiple nationals be? It would end up being like another regional and pointless. Just have one main event and more regionals if you want to go that route.
Teams going to NH for a national? Sure I could see that. They would go for the sam reason that they would go to kick off up there. The off hours entertainment is a valid point to stay at Disney, but what about trips to Dean’s crib? Sounds interesting to me.
Um, I hope I got everything out I was thinking. I’m sure I forgot something, but I’ll figure it out later.
I think a semi-national should be held on the East Coast and the West Coast. Only 20-30 teams from each can go. That would cut the amount of teams at the nationals down to 40-60! Compaired to the hundreds that went last time. Plus, Disney dosen’t have to deal with the sudden burst of activity
As for will I go, my team will go, but it won’t be the same as beeing at Disney. Plus, where will it be? There is no where else that has that many hotel rooms and eating venues that can accomodate thousands of teens. That was why they selected Disney in the first place. Plus, if they moved it to another city, the city would be held up in traffic from the teams and othe services. Hotels would sell out as far as the eye can see! Disney is the only place it can be held. Period. It has to do with proper loding and services. Plus we get to ride the rides!
I shared this idea with Nate from 66…but i like this one…
Every Team that goes to 1 regionals is eligable for the Semi-Nationals…The Semi Nationals are at 2 places: The Eastern Semi-Nationals at Disney World, and the Semi Nationals at Disney Land (If it could be possible)…Take the top 12 teams from each event and hold the nationals at the original site of the Nationals:The Manchester NH HS Gym…although i have never been there, I think that they could put the pits in the halls and then we decide who are champions are in there…My other idea which probably would never happen is have the top 24 at the home of Dean Kamen…that would be cool, but i doubt dean would want to hold an event in his house with over 200+ people in there
Originally posted by D.J. Fluck *
**
Take the top 12 teams from each event and hold the nationals at the original site of the Nationals:The Manchester NH HS Gym…although i have never been there, I think that they could put the pits in the halls and then we decide who are champions are in there…*
Which Manchester HS gym? There are four public, and one private, from what I remember…
This also raises the question, which team is on home turf: Central, West, Trinity or Memorial? From video I got for my birthday, the first year it was held in Manchester West.
I would prefer the Verizon Arena, which is where Kickoff is to be held this year…plus, theres more room to move around than at a high school.
Interesting idea, though 
I dunno, i havent been to Manchester… the main point of that was to tell about how it would be neat to move the championships to the original site
That would be pretty cool to do.