Yellow / Red Cards Assigned in 2019

rules

#144

While I’m intrigued by much of the controversy of these calls. (Rc/yc) I agree that this particular thread should remain as the OP wished it to be.

Could we get a mod to separate and create new threads for the “stepping the rail” and “over extended in the HAB” discussions? I would like to have those discussions continued but I think it’s starting to clutter up this thread.


#145

:clap:


#146

This is going back a few years (2016’s Battle for the Bluegrass Offseason) but this did happen a few times… one alliance in particular got pre-carded in one of their QF matches for entering the field early (not green!) at the end of the previous match, and right before another QF match (which they needed to win to survive, can’t remember if it went to a rubber match), a different team on the alliance did the exact same thing… Which resulted in the match about to be played to be literally unwinnable (even if the other alliance got a red card, first red card looses as per the 2016 rules). Since it was an offseason event, we took the liberty to allow the winning alliance to opt-out of playing the match (why risk wear and tear on a guaranteed win), and they did… some FMS magic from the scorkeeper (me) later and the match was over before it began. I’m not sure this scenario would play out in an official 2019 match (I’m not a HR), but it has been possible for quite some time as shown.

It stinks to have to do that… but rules are rules and the early entry rule had been a thing for many years back in 2016 (originally as an exclusively “leave the field intact for referee review” rule), and especially since we were handing out cards all day for this rule, you’d think drive teams would figure it out come playoffs, but not that day, anyway.

Not one of my happiest scorekeeping experiences :expressionless:


#147

Prior to matches, gates get closed incrementally as alliances set their robots and move off the field. Closing the gates helps prevent accidental S2 violations by teams.

S2 is a rule about entering the field early post-match, not exiting the field prior to match start if I remember correctly.

All I’m saying is that I think all gates should be open anytime a drive team member is on the field. It literally takes 2 seconds and would reduce the chance of accidental stupid penalties that do nothing other than make kids feel bad for stepping over a barrier.


#148

You too? Had a student at the Fall Classic in 2016, before a rubber match, walk over a defense. FIRST not being as lenient then as they are now, yellow card. 5 minutes later, on the other end of a Timeout, the same student did the same thing. Now, you’d think that they’d have learned the first time… They did get the option to play but I told 'em that I wasn’t going to make 'em suffer through playing a match they knew they couldn’t win. They opted not to play.


#149

You too?

Man… you guys are brutal at your off-seasons…


#151

Not sure what the card was for, but Lake Superior, Finals 1, had a red card.

  • 1 blue defender robot got up on a red bumper, entered the red frame perimeter, both got stuck for an extended period
  • 2nd blue robot is either pushed or followed by a red robot onto the red side, so now frame incursion/pinning? is being counted every 5 seconds along with 2 defenders
  • Stack of Red-Blue-Blue-Red gets pushed into a red loading station, robots finally get un-stuck, everyone returns to normal play

#152

During CVR, many robots got yellow/red cards for penetrating an opposing robots frame perimeter repeatedly when they were doing defense. I did not see a single person/team get cards for crossing jumping the wall


#153

Did you see people jumping the walls? I didn’t see any red cards for that either, but that’s because no one did it.


#154

The only cards I saw at Kettering #2 were for penetrating frames and throwing hatch panels.
Also, a close call in this match with 5712

Other than volunteers, I saw a team get warned about stepping over the wall.


#155

The red card was for extended pinning. See the “Violation” and blue box sections of G18.
The red bot in that match could have easily worked their way our from under the blue bot. I overheard that red deliberately chose to sit there in order to rack up penalty points. The red card was icing on the cake I suppose.


#156

Anybody have footage? That’s an interesting call to make.
@vanjan14
@Christopher149


#157

@IronicDeadBird

Match begins around 6:56:17. 5690 (blue) get on 4728 (red) around 6:57:08. The camera keeps cutting away, but the massive scrum happens around 6:58:05 through 6:58:20.


#158

They were going nuts over bumpers in PCH, leaving very little room for error. They warned us though, so I don’t think anyone was relaxed enough to slip up. I noticed that many teams decided to go with reversible bumpers this year, so that would follow that some (including ours, last week) looked like complete garbage. Many had frayed material and the reverse sides color showing on corners and seams, that had to be fixed to pass inspection. This week we reused our Steamworks bumpers, which were just corners. all we had to do was swap out mounting gear. There was one that the corner was absolutely disintegrated that we had to repair.


#159

Heres the quad view with the full field. @Christopher149

Match starts at 6:56:12
The “extended pinning” starts around 6:57:8


#160

Watching that video, I feel sorry for those wearing stripes and yellow at that moment.

There’s a lot not to like in that.

Initially, blue is the aggressor and certainly makes contact inside red’s frame perimeter.

From there, pinning gets interesting. Was red pinned? It’s hard to say yes. The drivers are clearly visible in the frame. You’ll notice the driver rather quickly puts the controller down and doesn’t make an effort to move. It would have been difficult to say they were pinned before the contact. Without an attempt to move, it’s hard to say so afterwards. You CAN say blue isn’t able to move. But, that’s also an “interesting” call as stated above.

It looks like blue was concerned enough they took the risk of additional penalties bringing another robot over to try to break up the issue. When they did, another red robot came in to run interference. There wasn’t any other benefit to the red robot in this instance joining.

The moment blue was able to knock blue free of red, the drive team picked up the controller and started playing again.

Looking at how any individual would interpret this in real time, there’s a variety of cards that could be applied in both directions focusing on: G18 (pinning), G20 (Stay out of other robots), C1 (egregious behavior), C8 (drawing fouls).

Watching that, it seems like a pretty impossible ask of the crew to get a call that would make everyone happy.


#161

They were very lax with bumpers at Gibraltar. There were a few teams that didn’t have the proper number height or stroke width, making it almost impossible to read from the stands. Then I remember watching a team in eliminations have a good portion of their reversible numbers hang off the side with no penalty or disable at all.

Events are all different. You’ll get some LRIs who just want to make sure everyone can pass and play, and you’ll get others who make sure every rule is strictly enforced.


#162

I did not see a single person/team get cards for crossing jumping the wall

There was this instance at CVR though.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/392293654?t=05h08m15s

You see the head ref talking to the team a few moments later too.


#163

At the St. Joe competition in Michigan last weekend there was a robot that when it climbed to level 3 it sometimes had an error that caused it to be slightly above the driver station wall, the 2nd time this happened the time was given a red card and did not receive points for the match


#164

At Belleville last week waiting for a match to start (connection issues) the head ref gave a red card to the DJ for playing an annoying song. Based upon the applause from the crowd it was well deserved. I don’t know what the song was.