YMTC: Redabot completes an autonomous lap

Thank you 2008 GDC! You Make The Call (YMTC) is a series of situations where you are the official and make the call.
Please reference specific rules when applicable. The results of YMTC are not official and are for educational purposes only.

*Welcome to the inaugural Dogwood Regional. Redateam has created one of the fastest cornering robots that the FIRST community has ever seen. On Thursday, Redateam’s autonomous code, designed to send Redabot racing around the track and across at least five “lines,” was giving them a serious headache. Redabot was bashing into wall after wall after wall. By Friday morning, however, Redabateam had their autonomous code seemingly ready to roll.

As Redateam’s first match of the Dogwood Regional begins, Redabot shoots out of the gate, screams across the Red finish line, and makes the first turn in hair-raising fashion before slamming into the outside wall in the Blue Home Stretch. Still moving, though at a noticeably slower pace, Redabot zips across the Blue finish line, down the Blue lane, and comes crashing into the Red Alliance Station Wall. With time running out, Redabot crosses into the Red Home Stretch, makes a turn, and limps toward the Red finish line to try to score that fifth line. As the buzzer sounds, Redabot’s front wheels have only just reached the finish line. Redabot then coasts to a stop nearly seven feet beyond the line as Redateam erupts into cheers for their rambunctious robot!

How many points has Redabot scored for Redalliance?*

Based on the 2008 Rules, YOU MAKE THE CALL!

By the rules, a robot must have completely crossed the line when time expires in order for the points to count. Redabot scores 4 lines, for 16 points.

16 points. <G04> gives us the basic 4 points per line.

Team Update #13 says, “determine the scores contributed by the Robots based on where they are when the clock reaches zero.”

So even though Redabot coasts way across the line, that 5th line doesn’t count.

Depends on if they get penalized for ramming the Red Alliance Station wall or not.

Are we assuming a penalty free Hybrid Mode here?
Because that wasn’t specified this time in the description.

And yes, it has happened in the past.
Teams have gotten penalties for ramming the Alliance Station walls in Hybrid.
(Good or bad, it is what it is, and needs to be defined before I can agree with the previous posters)

you can’t score 18 points in auto… lol I’m on to your games!!! :D:D:D

(the answer is 16 points, our robot did this time after time… and only once did it manage to score the fifth line lol, its weird how timers work sometimes lol) NO SENSORS FOR THE WIN!!

One point of clarification might be helpful in the scenario.
16 points IF (a big one, too) most likely it can be assumed that the CLOCK reached zero, at the same time as the “buzzer sounded”.

But just to be clear, the rule is when the time reaches ZERO, not when the Buzzer sounds.

In the past, the time and the sounds being used weren’t always in sync.
I haven’t watched closely enough this year to hear if the sound of the buzzer, was sync’d up with the time reaching zero - perhaps someone else can tell.

Mike

I guess the issue here is: Redabot has completed a lap, but it doesn’t count in hybrid. Should it’s completed lap then be counted in teleop? I would guess that it just wouldn’t be counted at all for the sake of following the rules consistently, but still…

I see where you are going with this: Redabot would have been better to stop before line 5 and thus get a lap in the beginning of tele. It is unfortunate that they have lost those 2 points from the lap, but that is the way it goes. I have never put much stock in the fifth line even though my robot is fast enough to get it (if it was just running laps or maybe only knocking the inner track balls). Instead of a close race to the fifth line the bot makes sure it gets the fourth line by not turning as much. I know the finish line will be 2 points in tele, and the homestretch is a better starting position for acquiring trackballs that may be near the finish line or not successfully knocked.

The CROSSING does not occur during hybrid, so no points can be awarded under <G04>. It also does not occur during teleoperation, so no points can be awarded under <G06>. Their score at the beginning of teleop is 16, and Redabot has to complete almost a full lap to score their next two points. Should have set those Victors to brake!

And as they coast underneath the overpass, they contact a red trackball as the buzzer sounds, and as redabot coasts to a stop the trackball falls to the ground.

Bonus or no?

Jason

I hope this is a rule IRI fixes.

All robots scored when they come to rest

Simplifies the officiating and is easy to understand.

I love it when people point out odd loopholes in the rules. I’m actually going to go with 18 points. The reasoning:

<G02> TELEOPERATED PERIOD – The TELEOPERATED PERIOD is the 2-minute period of game play immediately following the HYBRID PERIOD. At the beginning of the TELEOPERATED PERIOD the OPERATOR CONSOLE controls are activated and DRIVERS may remotely control their ROBOTS. The DRIVERS continue to teleoperate their ROBOTS for the remainder of the MATCH. ROBOCOACHES may continue to signal the ROBOT. The TELEOPERATED PERIOD ends when the arena timer displays zero seconds. This also indicates the end of the MATCH.
Luckily, the common sense definition of immediately is the same as the dictionary one. That is, occuring without any lapse of time or delay. So G02 says teleop starts the instant hybrid hits 0. I realize this doesn’t agree with reality or the intro section, but the intro section isn’t definitive, as they say. So they finish crossing in teleop and get the 2 points.

<G09> During the HYBRID PERIOD, each TRACKBALL that is removed from the OVERPASS (i.e. completely removed from its initial TARGET LOCATION and not in contact with any portions of the OVERPASS) at the end of the HYBRID PERIOD will earn 8 points

I’ve already debated this with some members of my team. Its a gray area, but I would count it. <G14> only covers the end of the MATCH, not Hybrid so it does not apply. It also says nothing about robots, only the location of the trackball. Basically, I would interpret the whole pause between hybrid and tele as the end of hybrid period (a long end, but you have to consider it something). As long as a ball is off the overpass during this end of hybrid period (no matter how it got there) I would count it as 8 points. Otherwise you need to add some rule to clarify this and possibly put the trackball back.

However, if tele starts when the hybrid clock reaches zero, it is no longer a 2 min period, thus doesn’t satisfy the first line of its definition. However, if you look at the pause as simply the end of hybrid it can last for any period of time and tele can be the 2 mins immediately following it. Fun thing to debate:)

I don’t see any question here. This has been one of the most consistent calls that I have seen in all of the regionals I’ve attended and watched.

At time zero, the robot has crossed 4 lines, and thus earns 16 points.

Also, the robot receives a warning for slamming into the opposing wall and will receive a yellow card the next time it occurs.

At the beginning of teleoperated, the robot is considered to be in the quadrant immediately following its home stretch for the purposes of the game (G22…), and will have to go around the field to get points for a lap.

If I were this team, I would either speed up the autonomous or stop before the finish line so I receive the most points for my effort.

Do I think this interpretation is asinine? Yes. Is that relevant to how the rules have consistently been called? No. Does it confuse the audience? Of course. Will the GDC change the rule? Doubtful. Will IRI change the rule? One can hope… but I digress.

16 points. End of story, and no argument.

This isn’t “how have the refs scored it this season?”. Since WE make the call in this scenario, I’m inclined to give the bot 18 points, even before I read Kevin’s post about the word “immediately”. The bot did not CROSS the line in HYBRID mode, yet it did complete a lap outside of the HYBRID period and during the MATCH.

Looks like we may need some official clarification. Q&A anyone? (I don’t have access atm)